Friday, April 25, 2008

Wonderlic scores!!!

There has been some reporting on Wonderlic scores over at the blog Potencial, where he posted some interesting Wonderlic results.

Of note:

The highest score listed was our very own John Carlson, who sported an impressive 40. Second was Frank Okam, DL fom Texas, with a 39. Third was another Notre Dame grad, John Sullivan, who scored a 35. King Dunlap, OT from Auburn was next with a 32. To round out the top 5 test takers is our very own Trevor Laws (tied with Mike Humpal, LB from Iowa) with a 30. Zibby's score isn't out yet.

No Notre Dame player on the list scored below a 30. The average score on the test (for NFL personnel and the general public) is a 21 - roughly equivalent to an average IQ score of 100.

The lowest score belongs to Skunkbear Mario Manningham, with a 6. He was the only player to score in single digits. To put this into perspective, take this quote, which I pulled off of's "Page 2" section:

[F]ormer Bengals punter and Harvard grad Pat McInally scored a perfect 50 -- the only NFL player known to do so -- while at least one player, it is rumored, scored a 1. Charlie Wonderlic Jr., president of Wonderlic Inc., says, "A score of 10 is literacy, that's about all we can say."

If these posted scores are true, Manningham - a "student athlete" at the supposedly quality academic institution in Ann Arbor - is functionally illiterate according to the president of Wonderlic, as he scored only a 6.

And lest I give our other rivals a pass, the Condoms didn't fare much better:

Other low scores include Southern Cal's John David Booty, who scored a paltry 14, well below average. And he's a quarterback.

Oh, and Sedrick Ellis of Southern Cal - the DT who is shorter, slower and less productive than Trevor Laws - scored a measly 15. But he is still rated as a higher draft pick. Seriously, can anyone point out to me any way in which Sedrick Ellis is measurably better than Laws? Anything at all? Besides team record (Laws didn't run the ball or catch passes, although that might have helped things last year if he had), there is NO reason for this guy's draft stock to be higher than Trevor's right now.

All this information does is confirm what I already knew - Notre Dame IS different, and their commitment to academics is unparalleled in Division I-A. Argue all you want about whose academic institution is more prestigious, but only Notre Dame applies that academic rigor to their athletes the same as the rest of the student body.



It's been reported that Tom Zbikowski just missed the 30 cutoff, scoring a 29 on his Wonderlic. This is still way above average, and would have him tied for 6th among the numbers reported by Potencial.


Anonymous said...

I wonder how ole' Brian at Mgoblog
will explain the high scores from ND's grads?

Anonymous said...

Amen. I live here in NC. David Cutcliffe, the new Duke football coach, said when asked about recruiting high caliber athletes in a tough academic environment: " Notre Dame does it."

'Nuff said.

Kenneth Hamilton said...

it is reported that zibby got a 29, so you might want to update your post, that one player under was under 30, but still above average and received twice the grade of J.D.Booty

Anonymous said...

less productive right? thats why sharpley was on his back the whole time looking up at sedrick ellis's smiling face... gimme a break

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Nathan Yu said...

Let's be serious. Sedrick Ellis is undoubtedly the second best defensive tackle in the draft, and arguable the best.
Did you not watch him play this year? That's your only excuse. Because if you watched any of his games or highlights, he absolutely dominated the trenches. WHO is Trevor ____? I don't even know his last name...I have NEVER heard of that guy until you mentioned him. Sedrick Ellis is a beast on the line - college scouts and pro scouts rated him high for a reason. This is not a conspiracy, you need to get your facts straight.

Anonymous said...

Reportedly, McInally was at practice for one of the All-Star games. Several big conference types were discussing the relative size of their linemen as he walked past.

"Hey, Harvard, what did your line average?"

"Oh, about a 3.62."

toolfan666 said...

the test should have had questions like how many times did Manningham burn the Notre Dame secondary for touchdowns in 2006 (3) and how many points did Charlie and his little girls put up against Michigan last year? (0) Zibby should have used his huge brain and calculated how to score points.

Kenneth Hamilton said...

um zibby is on defense, and yet still manages to put points up, and yeah... what is so great about god given talent if the kid doesn't care enough to learn to read in the 15+ years of his education. thats what happens when people glorify genetics and not heart and effort....also you only wish to have questions like that because only a stat obsessed tool that waste time would excel at, not on a test that actually measures mental capacity and ability.... good job buddy.

cause at the end of the day, you are still cool

toolfan666 said...

um hello McFly you fucking Tool, it was a shut out. wake up and smell the failure dipshit. Defence and special teams. 0 POINTS! THATS THE POINT

toolfan666 said...

Very nice Notre Dame, #156 in the list of top 400 universities in the world. FYI U of M # 38.

Wacko said...

That list of the "top 400" universities is a purely peer-rerview ranking, based on academics who rank their peers. It is well known that academia is very left leaning, and that Notre Dame is a conservative Catholic institution.

Spouting off rankings based on such subjective criteria is the worst form of puffery.

Come up with something more substantial, and we'll talk.

toolfan666 said...

In one recent rankings summary, more than 70% of UM's 200 major programs, departments, and schools were ranked in the top 10 in the nation.[34] The 2008 U.S. News and World Report ranks UM 25th among all American universities and 3rd among public universities.[35] In its 2007 annual college rankings, The Washington Monthly ranks UM sixth nationally with criteria based on research, community service, and social mobility.[36] Newsweek International rates UM 11th globally based on "openness and diversity" as well as "distinction in research".[37] Similarly, the 2007 edition of the Fiske Rankings rates UM with "5 Stars"—reserved for only those universities of the highest academic quality. Furthermore, UM's academic reputation has led to its inclusion on Richard Moll's list of Public Ivies.[38]

A concern about academics at UM is the high level of educational expenses for a public institution, especially for out-of-state undergraduate students, who pay between US $31,301 and $36,352 annually for tuition alone. In 2005, out-of-state tuition at UM was the most expensive in the United States for a public college or university.[39] Conversely, in-state undergraduate students paid between US $10,447 and $14,442 annually.[40] Notwithstanding the quoted tuition levels, the university is attempting to increase financial aid availability to students. To that end, the university has built, as part of its larger university campaign, a greater than $1.4 billion endowment in order to support aid to students.[41][42][43]

Wacko said...

I can copy and paste from Wikipedia, too!!!

"Notre Dame ranked 19th overall in the United States in U.S. News and World Report's best colleges.[72] U.S. News and World Report also lists Notre Dame Law School as 22nd overall, and the Gourman Report, which is published by the Princeton Review, ranks the Law School at 18th. BusinessWeek ranks Mendoza College of Business graduate school as 26th overall.[66][73] Additionally, The Washington Monthly ranked the university 13th nationally in its 2006 edition.[74] BusinessWeek also ranked the undergraduate business program as 3rd nationally.[75] The Philosophical Gourman Report ranked Notre Dame's graduate philosophy program as 13th nationally,[76] while ARCHITECT Magazine, ranked the undergraduate architecture program as 12th nationally.[77] Additionally, the study abroad program ranks sixth in highest participation percentage in the nation, with 57.6% of students choosing to study abroad in 17 countries.[78]"

The issue is not whether or not Mishigan, as a University is good, or even whether it is better than Notre Dame (it is not).

The issue as discussed in this posting is simply that Michigan does not apply its academic requirements to its athletes, especially it's football players. Notre Dame does.

Notre Dame football players are better students, better citizens, and smarter people than Michigan football players, on average. By a large margin.

Ann Arbor is still a whore.

Wacko said...

While we are on the subject, if you want to examine ratings of universities, consider this ranking system, (Notre Dame #30, Michigan #61) which aggregates the various ranking data available, providing a broader ranking system, and uses objective data such as selectivity and yield:

"1. Harvard University
2. Princeton University
3. Stanford University
4. Columbia University
5. California Institute of Technology
6. Yale University
7. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
8. Brown University
9. University of California, Berkeley
10. University of California, Los Angeles
11. University of Pennsylvania
12. Dartmouth College
13. Rice University
14. Duke University
15. Swarthmore College
16. Amherst College
17. University of California, San Diego
18. Williams College
19. Georgetown University
20. Cornell University
21. Northwestern University
22. Pomona College
23. U.S. Naval Academy
24. University of California, Santa Barbara
25. University of California, Santa Cruz
26. University of California, Davis
26. Harvey Mudd College
28. Haverford College
29. U.S. Military Academy
30. University of Notre Dame
31. The Johns Hopkins University
32. Washington University
33. University of Virginia
34. Middlebury College
35. Bowdoin College
36. Claremont McKenna College
37. Washington & Lee University
38. Davidson College
39. U.S. Air Force Academy
40. Tufts University
41. Barnard College
42. College of William & Mary
43. Wesleyan University
44. Carnegie Mellon
45. University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
46. Colgate University
47. Wellesley College
48. The University of Chicago
49. Vassar College
50. New York University
51. Colby College
52. Carleton College
53. Emory University
54. University of Southern California
55. Grinnell College
56. Case Western Reserve University
57. Brandeis University
58. Cooper Union for Advancement of Science and Art
59. Wake Forest University
60. Boston College
61. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
62. Vanderbilt University
63. Pepperdine University
64. Bryn Mawr College
65. Macalester College

The Consus Group uses the following methodology to compile its annual college rankings:

Published Rankings: Published Rankings reflect current and historical ratings by numerous sources, including: U.S. News, Gourman Report, etc. An institution’s aggregate published ranking comprises 50% of its overall score.
Selectivity: Selectivity measures the quality of schools’ admitted candidates. Selectivity is based on the percent of applicants admitted, SAT scores, and the percent of admitted applicants in the top 10% of their high school classes. An institution’s composite selectivity comprises 45% of its overall score.
Yield: Yield reflects the percentage of admitted candidates that matriculate to the admitting university. An institution’s yield comprises 5% of its overall score.
While many university rankings fluctuate wildly from year to year, TCG’s comprehensive methodology produces a stable, accurate picture of America’s best colleges and universities."


toolfan666 said...

My point exactly numb nuts! US news and World report ranks Michigan Law #9

Wacko said...

US News rankings are flawed as well, although I'll admit to Michigan having a quality law school.

You keep attempting to deflect the issue of Michigan's treatment of it's student athletes, rather than addressing the issue,

And attacks on catholicism will not be tolerated on my blog. Your representation of U of M is making many of my points about the quality of the institution for me.

With the tongue in cheek comment that Ann Arbor is a whore aside, I have not (and will not) stoop to attacking Michigan's liberality, whereas the extent of your discourse seems to be hurling insults to deflect the attention from your weaknesses and copying other people's work and claiming it as your own.

Classic Michigan.

toolfan666 said...

Bloggers: Don't come after us with the rantings of commenters on our blogs - comments are a free forum where anyone can post whatever they want.
nice job editing the truth. I wouldn't have expected anything less from a Catholic. Does Charlie Wiess know that gluttony is a deadly sin. "To Hell with Michigan" I say Charlie should work on a game plan for Navy before he condemns Michigan to his fairytale places.

Wacko said...

Now, that's what I call a rational response.

No knee jerk, Catholic priest comments.

Just a jab at Coach Weis' "To hell with Michigan" comment. (an amazingly apropos commentary on the late Bo Schembechler, by the way - bravo...)

Maybe Michigan people can be taught.

I only edit the particularly offensive comments on my blog (which means you, toolfan666, have scaled new heights in offensiveness - congrats?).

The rest I leave for the amazement of the general public on the sheer stupidity of Michigan people.